Episode 026 — New Beginnings Visionary, Dr. James Dubel

Title: New Beginnings Visionary, Dr. James Dubel

Episode Number: 026

Host: Dr. Thomas Lamar

Show Date: 10/15/2010

Run Time: 45:37

Description:  On September 29, 2010, Dr. Thomas Lamar, and son Logan, responded to an invitation of  incredible opportunity — an opportunity that required them to pack up their podcast studio and trek across the nation to the shores of New Jersey to attend a massive gathering of chiropractors that was celebrating its 20th Anniversary.  That gathering is known as New Beginnings Chiropractic Weekends, and Spinal Column Radio was to interview as many of their big name speakers as they could.  On this episode of SpinalColumnRadio, you’ll get the chance to meet the founder of New Beginnings, Dr. James Dubel — a chiropractor of incredible vision… who not only had the vision of creating the largest, regular chiropractic philosophy gathering in the northeast, but had the vision of involving SpinalColumnRadio as soon as he heard it.

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ON LOCATION in New Jersey

-20th Anniversary-

Dr. James Dubel on Spinal Column Radio with Dr. Thomas Lamar and audio engineer, Logan.

An Interview with Founder, James Dubel, DC

New Beginnings Chiropractic Weekends

Fall 2010


COMING SOON: WATCH clips of this episode on YouTube!

• Learn more about James Dubel, DC

• Learn more about New Beginnings Chiropractic Weekends

– Website: NewBeginningsChiro.com

– Face Book Chiropractic Philosophy Fan Page

-Face Book Chiropractic History Fan Page


In the Cue:

More “On Location” New Beginnings Chiropractic Weekends Interviews from some of our Profession’s Finest!

note: names will link to interviews as they become available.

Arno Burnier, Jason Deitch, Billy DeMoss, Kevin Donka, James Dubel, Gary Deutchman, Skip George, Reggie Gold, Jay Handt, Bill Henry, Ernie Landi, Tony DeMarco, Peter Morgan, Jeanne Ohm, Barbara Sanoudis, Jon Schwartzbauer, Fred Schofield, Liam Schubel, Sam Selimo, Gary Street, Chuck Ribley, Armand Rossi, and Robert Tarantino.

“What’s a Podcast???” page!


Visit our iTunes listing and leave us a review!


Does your podcast listening schedule need a little backbone? If so, it’s time to schedule an appointment with your podcast chiropractor, Dr. Thomas Lamar.

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[Dr. Reggie Gold: Hi this is Reggie Gold — or Dr. Reggie Gold — and you’re listening to Spinal Column Radio.]

Spinal Column Radio, episode number twenty-six.

Coming up next on Spinal Column Radio — The Visionary of New Beginnings Chiropractic Weekends, Dr. James Dubel.

[Dr. James Dubel: Keep chiropractic pure. Do one thing. You can’t serve two masters.  I said, “If you are going to be a good chiropractor, be a chiropractor. If you want to do drugs, be a medical doctor. You know, go be an osteopath. Do something else but stay out of chiropractic.” And the guy turned to me and said, “Well, you’re like an outlaw.” I said, “Yeah, I guess I’ll be an outlaw.”]


[intro theme music]

And welcome back to another exciting and information packed episode of Spinal Column Radio.  My name is Dr. Thomas Lamar, chiropractor and Dad of 6.   And this is the podcast that gets you to think.  To think about your health in a whole new way.  We’re the podcast for your backbone… the podcast with backbone.  Who knew that spinal education could be this much fun?

We’d like to invite you to visit our podcast website at SpinalColumnRadio.com where you can learn more about us, check out our world-renowned “What’s a Podcast?” page, and can access the show notes for this episode.  Also, we encourage you to leave comments and ask questions through our website, or, if you prefer, you can email me using DrLamar AT SpinalColumnRadio DOT com.


[transitional sound effect]

Well welcome once again to SpinalColumnRadio.  You know, if you tuned in last week to Episode 025, you heard a Spinal Column Radio first… Actually it was sort of a rare treat for podcasters in general.  We were LIVE and ON STAGE in front of a crowd of 500 –interviewing New Beginnings Chiropractic Weekend’s Cofounder, Dr. Bill Henry.   What a memorable experience that was…. not to mention a charge that was unlike any other… the energy coming off of the audience was absolutely amazing.  And, we were ON LOCATION in New Jersey.

And what were we doing in New Jersey?…

Well before we give you the inside scoop… I just want to take a brief moment to thank some very special people that Logan and I met along the way.

Okay… we’ve all traveled before and you probably know the feeling when you en route to your destination…. that maybe you forgot something.  Well… as it turns out I forgot two things… My tooth brush… which as it turns out is not a really that big of a deal… that’s an easy fix….  But, I also forgot a specialized clamp that holds the boom arm of one of my microphones.  I had one of them… but unfortunately the other one stayed behind in my SpinalColumnRadio Studio in Kingston, WA… 2500 miles away!

You know, thankfully it wasn’t a microphone, but still this was a critical piece of equipment…. But I knew I could probably “MacGyver” something together… but I was without my tools, and so I really felt helpless.   And then I figured, if I could just find a Home Depot… I might just be able to pull it off.

Well… finding a Home Depot in New Jersey proved to be a bit of a challenge.  But I want to thank a fine gentleman by the name of Moose who was extremely helpful in drawing us a very detailed map and really helping us in a great way.

Essentially, Logan and I walked into this Home Depot… And I was dressed and ready to conduct some interviews… as matter of fact, my first interview… which you are going to hear a little bit later on in this program was just two hours away, and I still had to drive an hour to get to the place.  So I basically I had about an hour to make a boom arm clamp for the Heil PR-40.  I walked into Home Depot — Home Depot 6845 — and was immediately greeted by a young gentleman by the name of John R.  And he asked if I needed help and I paused…. keep in mind Logan right now, he’s wearing this SpinalColumnRadio shirt that says “My Dad is the Podcast Chiropractor” … and he’s holding the Heil PR40  boom arm, complete with shock mount and microphone flag…. and I said, well as a matter of fact I do need some help…

I introduced myself, and I said, “John, how would you like to be a hero today?”  And I knew that when he looked at me and he said, “Right on!”…that we were going to get this job done.

He immediately enlisted the help of some of his coworkers… a key one being Adrian in Hardware.  At that point, I felt like Ty Pennington of Extreme Home Makeover….. It was like “Okay guys…. we have to come up with a clamp that is going to hold this microphone in the next 20 minutes… and we’re racing against the clock…. but we can do it!.. Who’s with me?  Go-go-go-go-go!”  It was just amazing… they immediately kicked into gear.  We went to lumber and got a piece of scrap 2×3 and cut a 12 inch section of it… and then we were back to hardware to get one of those quick grip clamps … And then we needed to drill a hole in the wood.  Now… this was this one part that I was a little uncertain about, because I’ve been to Home Depot before, and I know they don’t normally drill holes for you.  I mean, they’ll go ahead and they’ll cut lumber, and do crosscuts and whatnot… but drilling holes, that’s usually something that they are not going to do for you… but, you know, I was in a pinch.  And I told them, you know, I am willing to buy the drill bit… but, seriously, I can’t buy a drill.  I’m here in New Jersey… I don’t even have enough room to pack another tooth brush.  So, we went over and we found the drill bit that we needed… And then Adrian didn’t even hesitate. He took the drill bit from my hand that we had picked out and he opened it up… and pulled right off the shelf — off their display — cutting the zip-ties and everything — one of their prized drills… and, before I knew it, he was plugged in… using the clamp that I was about to purchase…. and he’s right there in the middle of the aisle… and he’s drilling holes where I had marked!

And I am not kidding you… Logan and I were in and out of that store in record time with a wonderful makeshift clamp in hand — that worked perfectly by the way … and incidentally… if you look closely in the photos in our show notes you will see this clamp in action…. and, anyway, Logan and I made it to our destination and hit the ground running… ready to work.

So… once again… thank you so much to Home Depot… for coming to the rescue… and in particular thank you to John M., in paint, and Adrian R., in hardware, of store 6845 in New Jersey for literally bending over backwards for this chiropractor and going above and beyond to get the job done… and because of your efforts, we were able to have an amazingly successful trip and will be supplying content through this podcast that will affect many, many people… you guys truly embody the tag like “You can do it… We can help.”

Thank you guys, I know you’re listening… you guys rock!


[transitional sound effect]

Okay… the suspense is killing me, you might be saying… Why in the world was Spinal Column Radio in New Jersey?… Well at the tail of episode 024 I teased it by saying that we were going to go to New Jersey and the reason why was the Power of the Podcast …and that’s true…. But rather than me explain exactly why we were there…. I thought we’d let the chiropractor, himself, that extended this incredible invitation, give us the explanation…. His name is Dr. Jim Dubel and in a moment, you are going to hear our interview with him in our On Location Studio in New Jersey…. but first… we thought we’d thought bring him on the phone for a little post game show before the big game.


[transitional sound effect]

All right! We are going to bring on the telephone right now Dr. James Dubel to answer the question “What in the world was Spinal Column Radio doing in New Jersey?”

Dr. Lamar: Dr. Jim, can you shed some light on that question?

Dr. Dubel: Hi Tom. Yes, I guess I could. You know, there’s a thing that we call intuition. Chiropractors call it innate. And you happened to, at one time, go onto a FaceBook site that our group here in New Jersey has and responded to some pictures we had of the early radio… pictures we had of the chiropractic family, the B.J. Palmer Chiropractic Enterprises. And from there, I think we got a little conversation and you posted a podcast of B.J. Palmer speaking, which was wonderful… an original, I guess it was 78 rpm record that you recorded, put it on there and it blew us away. So from there we had this thought, this inspiration, this innate as I like to call it… an innate thought flash. I said, “Boy this guy has got some great stuff! This would be an asset to our people at New Beginnings here on the east coast. Well, from that point on Tom, you know the rest of the story. We contacted each other and as kindred spirits will often do, we agreed that it was time for Spinal Column Radio to come east to New Jersey. [transitional sound effect]  Having you there recording some of our speakers… we strive to get the best of the best in chiropractic to come to New Beginnings. And we happened to have a huge weekend. You were part of it. You got to interview Tom… oh my goodness… some of chiropractic’s greatest philosophical minds, you know, for the year 2010. They were there and you were there.

Dr. Lamar: And we were there… and it was amazing!  All told, over a course of two and a half days, Logan and I interviewed 23 chiropractors — one of which was on stage.  And that was in the last episode… Episode number 25.

You know, we interviewed chiropractors, as Dr. Dubel said, that represented some of the greatest philosophical minds in our profession.

I’m going to go ahead and read that impressive list right now… just to give you an idea of what lies ahead.

Chiropractors such as:  Arno Burnier, Jason Deitch, Billy DeMoss, Kevin Donka, James Dubel, Gary Deutchman, Skip George, Reggie Gold, Jay Handt, Bill Henry, Ernie Landi, Tony DeMarco, Peter Morgan, Jeanne Ohm, Barbara Sanoudis, Jon Schwartzbauer, Fred Schofield, Liam Schubel, Sam Selimo, Gary Street, Chuck Ribley, Armand Rossi, and Robert Tarintino.

And Dr. Dubel’s reaction to that impressive line up…

Dr. Dubel: Every one of those speakers that you interviewed is one of the best of the best. They were all principle chiropractors that live a certain lifestyle that we adhere to. I mean, they practice principle chiropractic. They raise their families. They live it. They eat, they breathe everything about chiropractic. It’s their life. And you got to interview them. These are guys that have set the standard for the past 20, 30, 40, 50 years in practice. I mean there’s no little kids in there. These are guys that have been there… that have done it. The old expression: You walk the walk. You talk the talk and walk the walk. Everyone of them. They walk the walk. They talk the talk. They do it. And you got them all! Oh my gosh! It was a great weekend!


[transitional sound effect]

So now, without any further adieu.. let’s get to that interview… Dr. Jim Dubel in our “On Location Studio” at the Fall 2010 … 20th Anniversary…. New Beginnings Chiropractic Weekends in New Jersey.


[transitional sound effect]

”]Dr. Lamar: Well, this is unbelievable! After a full day of trekking across the United States, Logan and I have set up a temporary studio in the absolutely stunning Ocean Place Resort and Spa on the New Jersey coastline to meet up with a movement in chiropractic. A movement that occupies an entire hotel for 4 days, 3 times per year, attracting hundreds and hundreds of chiropractors from all around with a full array of some of the greatest minds in chiropractic as speakers. Speakers that aim to keep the philosophy of chiropractic fueled and supercharged in each and every chiropractor that attends. It’s called New Beginnings Chiropractic Weekends and this is it’s 20th anniversary. And sitting right beside me here is the man that started it all. He is a 1980 graduate of Palmer College of Chiropractic and was just recently named the 2010 Chiropractor of the Year by Sherman College of Chiropractic, Dr. Jim Dubel. Dr. Jim!


Dr. Dubel: Hi Tom!

Dr. L: Welcome to Spinal Column Radio!

Dr. D: Oh it’s a pleasure! An absolute pleasure.

Dr. L: Hey, let me just start out by saying that this is absolutely amazing! I’m so glad to be here.

Dr. D: Hey, listen we are glad to  have you here. This is going to be a fun event. You know, just having you here recording all our speakers or as many as we can… it’s going to be awesome! And you can share this stuff out there throughout the country. I mean, just going to be hundreds of chiropractors, thousands of them, they are going to get to enjoy this. We are looking forward to doing it.

Dr. L: Absolutely! Ok. Let’s, for our listeners and viewers, let’s start out real basic here. What in the world is New Beginnings Chiropractic Weekends?

Dr. D: Well, that’s a tough question. We started as a small group over 25 years ago. Guys that read Palmer Green Books and enjoy the philosophy of chiropractic. Over the years it grew. We formed a board. There’s 7 families right now that have pledged themselves to protect and perpetuate principles of chiropractic. So we, like you said, we meet 3 times a year and we just bask in the philosophy. It’s a lifestyle. It’s something we raised our children with and we like sharing it. So that’s what we do. That’s what New Beginnings is.

Dr. L: Let’s just touch on some of the things you mentioned. You mentioned “Green Books” first of all. And some people watching right now have no idea what a Green Book is, maybe other than it’s green. Can you tell us a little more about the green books and what it is that attracts you to them?

Dr. D: Sure… sure. The Palmer family, it started with D.D. and then into B.J. Palmer, felt there was a need to explain the science, philosophy and art of chiropractic. And since there was nothing at the time you know back in the early 1900s, they started to pen books explaining first the art of chiropractic, then, you know,  the science behind it and eventually the philosophy. B.J. himself was a prolific writer doing… oh my goodness, hundreds of hundreds of articles! He actually even opened up a printing shop to print them. Now, the green part of it… they put green covers on them. So, over the years they became “Greenies” and “Green Books” and people clamor to collect them and to read them. And quite honestly it’s been, what, 115 years give or take that chiropractic has been around and the material in these books have not changed. It’s exactly the same. It still is correct back in 1895 as it is today in 2010. It’s pretty amazing.

Dr. L: I understand that have you collected all of the Green Books. Is that true?

Dr. D: Oh yeah! I’ve got books that even Palmer College may not have so we are going to keep that quiet. We don’t want them getting them.

Dr. L: And isn’t it true that really it was… was it the Green Books that kind of started what, the infant form of New Beginnings?

Dr. D: The initial, I guess, philosophy group that we had… I would read a Green Book. I was just crazy about collecting them. And I would read a chapter or a few verses and try and digest it. There was days I’d read something, put the book down, pick it up the next day, read the same paragraph and it meant something else. I’d get to the office inspired, just ready to share what I just read. And I found that my colleagues would call up and say “Well, Jim, what did you read here?” And I’d try to explain it to them. And then the next time 2 people would call. So we’d meet for, you know,  a soda and a burger and go over it. Well, that took off and we started meeting at my office on a Wednesday night after-hours. And next thing you know, somebody brought a 6 pack of beer. Somebody brought pizza. Somebody brought a friend. And it went from 2 people to 5 people to 20, to 30 and we started a little group here in New Jersey. It hadn’t been named yet. And it was just sharing  the philosophy. And most times it would be me sharing what I read and then we’d discuss it. And then from there it grew to bringing outside people in that could also discuss it. And we started going around the Northeast. That’s why we pretty much stayed a Northeast group and brought in people that had the same thoughts, values, family values, the same lifestyle and we discussed chiropractic. Pure and simple.

Dr. L: That’s phenomenal! I have a question though. You’ve mentioned philosophy and I as a chiropractor know what chiropractic philosophy is, or I’m learning. But, there are people that could be watching or listening today that really don’t know what you mean. What is chiropractic philosophy? Can you kind of break it down for us?

Dr. D: Tough question… tough question. You got about 6 years? We could… I could take the books out. It’s an understanding of what chiropractic really is. And B.J. gave so many different explanations of it so that everyone could understand. When we have a speaker, one speaker has a philosophical dissertation of what he thinks it is. Basically, you know I’ll say this… it’s the power that made your body, heals your body and through chiropractic we keep that body healthy and you get rid of a subluxation… you are going to ask me about that next I know… But, chiropractors do that simply done by hand to relieve any interference with the body. Now, the philosophy behind it is how you do it, why it works, the excitement behind it, the miracles you see when you adjust somebody and you see them rise up. That philosophical understanding of chiropractic that those things can happen. That there is an innate intelligence out there, a universal wisdom that heals the body, controls the body and chiropractors are able to use that. They remove the subluxation and people are able to rise up and heal up and truely innate or universal is the only thing that heals the body. Drugs don’t heal it. Surgery doesn’t heal it. Potions, lotions, and all this other nonsense… that doesn’t heal the body. This innate, inborn power that the body has. That every single living thing has is what a chiropractor uses when he makes that adjustment. He releases it. So, I know that’s a long way to go around to try and explain what philosophy is but it’s everybody’s thoughts about what I just mentioned and how innate works and how the body works. So…

Dr. L: So, if I’m hearing you correctly and if I was to help you with this, is it… is the philosophy really the “Why” behind what we’re doing as chiropractors?

Dr. D: I guess you could say that. The adjustment would be “How”, the philosophy “Why”. There’s an understanding of what chiropractic really is. Some people laugh at philosophy… the all philosophical chiropractors. “Yeah, I don’t believe in that stuff.” They want to be scientific and they want… or and some guys are real good into the art, the adjustment and they stand back but chiropractic’s a three-pronged chair. If you take one leg of that chair out, it’s going to fall over. So you need the science. You need the art. But the philosophy, boy that’s the strongest part because if you are strong in philosophy you could be an average adjuster and you’d still do well. And science, I mean I’m not a real big science person. I mean I enjoy it. I like the science behind it but the philosophy is what people cling to. It’s the thing that, you know we’re talking something new that’s coming out that’s vitalism. D.D. Palmer talked about vitalism. B.J. talked about vitalism. And vitalism, this vitalistic innate ability of the body to heal itself is what chiropractic is all about.

Dr. L: So, it’s really what gives the chiropractor the fire and the passion to do what he does.

Dr. D: Well, that’s what it gives me. I mean I get up every day knowing that there’s one or two patients that if I can get my hands on them, I can change their life. And I don’t think they realize it at the time. I’ve never met a person that didn’t need to be checked and then adjusted. You know, some people say “Well I just got adjusted by this chiropractor and you know,  I should be clear. I should be good.” Well, get checked again because the moment you stand up out out of your chair you could resubluxate yourself. I mean there’s a million-in-one ways it could happen. But knowing that God gave us a set of hands. He didn’t give us machines. He didn’t give us, you know, potions and pills. He gave us hands. I could go to another country… a place where I don’t even speak the same language. I could go to a man, a woman, a youngster, a person that’s 90 years old and it’s the same adjustment. So, I mean, I could go to the moon and I can adjust somebody. So, there’s a certain magnificence, a certain… and this is the philosophy… that chiropractic works. It’s worked for 115 years. It still works today. It hasn’t changed. It’s the same as it always was. And the exciting part is as chiropractors if you could grab that… Oh my gosh! You got the world right there. It’s your oyster. And you can do what you want. It’s the pearl. How can you not be excited about that?

Dr. L: Can I hear an Amen?

Dr. D: Hallelujah Brother!

Dr. L: All right! Tell me about the name New Beginnings itself. Does it imply like a starting over or… ?

Dr. D: When we were looking for a name we had the event and it wasn’t named. We actually had it a couple times. And it was over 20 years ago. And we finally… we were talking and I think I was with Bill Henry and Barbara Sanoudis in my office and I said we got to name this thing something. What are we going to call it? You know… it’s like a new beginning. And they said “Well that’s a new beginning.” And I said “…for a new future.”  So we named it A New Beginning for a New Future. It’s gotten shortened to New Beginnings and you know, now the initials N.B. Yeah. It is a new beginning because someone that comes here doesn’t understand it, doesn’t understand chiropractic philosophy and the essence of it. After a weekend with us they get it. And then they go home and you know, we meet 3 times a year which may not be enough but those 3 times a year reignites the fire… reignites the fire… reignites the fire… and keeps the passion alive. And that’s why we keep doing it.

Dr. L: Keep stoking the fire.

Dr. D: That’s it.

Dr. L: You know, you mentioned that the name at first was New Beginnings for…

Dr. D: A New Future.

Dr. L: …a New Future. And then you shortened to New Beginnings and now it’s just N.B. You know, B.J. Palmer would be very proud because he is all about taking something… he calls them goat feathers right? You know about that? Yeah. And he likes to kind of distill it down. It’s like why say something and… New Beginnings For a New Future… 6 words when you can say it in basically in two initials?

Dr. D: Well, I guess it works. Working so far.

Dr. L: Anyway… well, you’ve been described as a visionary here at New Beginnings and here you guys are. You are on your 20th anniversary. When you look back to those early days that we were just talking about, does the New Beginnings of today look kind of how you hoped it might look back then when you were trying to project forward?

Dr. D: You know, we always had a vision to reach as many people as possible and when we created our board, our board of advisors, different families with the same passion, same vision mysteriously, if you want to call it that, came together and we formed a board. We’d noticed that we all had the same desire to share chiropractic, the same desire to live it as a lifestyle. You know, we all acted… had big practices because we liked the philosophy. That’s how it came about. My thoughts on this personally… Years ago I had the great opportunity to speak at a D.E., a Dynamic Essential meeting down at Atlanta, Georgia with Sid Williams and it changed my life. I walked out of the meeting and I pledged to myself that someday I would make, you know, a weekend… do the same thing because I knew that… you know we had B.J. then we had Jim Parker, then we had Sid Williams and I said, “You know what? Someday… “ I’m not putting myself in their category. Please don’t misunderstand me. But, I said,  “Someday I’m going to work hard to make an event.” And it’s come to fruition. We are now seeing people that have not been in the room for many years are coming back. And we’re seeing new faces and we are seeing a resurgence in chiropractic. We’re seeing a different set of rules, all of a sudden, in the past year. What do I attribute it to? I don’t know, but I think the vision initially was to make this thing what we could and we’re finally starting to see the fruits of our labor.

Dr. L: Talk about, if you would, how social media has played a part in New Beginnings recently.

Dr. D: Well, they didn’t have it obviously 20 years ago. And when it came about… I’m, you know, an older guy. I’m not a young computer wizard but, when the opportunity came upI was reading a magazine and it said that you’re silly not to be apart of the social media no matter what business you’re in. So, I looked into to see what chiropractors are doing. Then I discovered that there were a lot of chiropractors out there on the internet specifically on You tube and FaceBook. So, I touched my feet into the water and started getting involved. And I realized there were so many people that were islands unto themselves that needed to hear about philosophy, that needed to hear about chiropractic, that had the same views and lifestyle that I do but didn’t know where to go. Well, that led to, you know, New Beginnings starting a website. I put my name out there. We did all these different sites on different places. And it’s been incredible. And then, you know, we ran into you. Found you…

Dr. L: Yeah, I wouldn’t be here without FaceBook.

Dr. D: Yeah, I mean…

Dr. L: The right person FaceBooked me and this guy found out all about me.

Dr. D: Yeah. And you put something on our historical page…

Dr. L: That’s right, yeah.

Dr. D: And that’s how we found that. I said, “Oh boy! This is great!” You know, something that I enjoyed. You put historical B.J. Palmer tapes up there. So, it’s meant to happen. And I think it’s going to help our profession. It’s going to help chiropractic. It’s going to be really really good.

Dr. L: Well, you know, as I stated as I was introducing you, you are a 1980 graduate of Palmer College of Chiropractic. Formerly that was the Palmer School of Chiropractic. And I understand that the college is undergone a lot of change over the years. But, back in 1980, was there evidence or fingerprints of B.J. around campus that you can recall?

Dr. D: Well, when I was there… I got there in the late 70’s. There was still a fair amount of information. In fact, the reason I really got into the Green Books… Somebody said to me, “You know, you got to get up to the library, read them, beg, borrow, steal, get a Green Book and read it.” I was of mixed emotions. I got the first one, started reading it and started getting passionate about. That lead to me going down to D.E. because  they discussed philosophy. I fell in love with the philosophy. I start collecting Green Books, started collecting post cards of Palmer… all the different things. You’d be amazed. There were people that their dads were chiropractors sent them to school and they had a Green Book and they would give it to me and say, “I’ll never read that.” Oh my gosh! I got it in my collection today… I became the Green Book whore if you want to call me that. But, I took every Green Book, every picture, and then the thing that I did that was smart… back, you know, 30 years ago, I put ads in the different chiropractic journals and magazines for Green Books. And people sold them to me because they, you know… old doctor retiring goes, “I don’t want to see this stuff go to waste.”

Dr. L: Sure.

Dr. D: I collected pictures. I collected historical little… they call them “chachkies” that B.J. Palmer had. You know paper weights and ties and sheet music and I could go on and on and on with all that. I’ve got pictures that a photographer had from 1920 that he took pictures they used in some of the Green Books. And I have the original copy. Now I might have three pictures that… 1, 2, and 3 and they used 2 in the book and I have 1 and 3 that were never used and never seen before. I have some of those around. And then I got the opportunity over the years to talk to many many many old time chiropractors that were just absolute sweethearts. And they couldn’t understand, in today’s society… and I’m talking 20 years ago, 30 years ago why the “kids” didn’t understand chiropractic. And they said it’s so simple once you get it. Once you get it you’re successful. But most of them don’t try to get it. They want to, you know, be scientific and they want to, you know, have a scientific explanation. And they want to do other answlery procedures. And he said get the philosophy. Get that idea and all else follows. And that’s the big idea. So…

Dr. L: I wanted to add something. I met you via FaceBook and it was your chiropractic history fan book page that attracted me. And what was so amazing… I was doing the whole chiropractic radio history thing and I saw photos that I had never seen before, especially photos relating to radio that just… I was just so supercharged after seeing your site. And what was so neat about that was… It’s a community of people and they’re uploading photos. “Oh my Grandpa had these underneath his bed. Would you like them?” You know? And all of a sudden it’s like everyone is sharing this and it’s… that’s pretty cool!

Dr. D: Yeah. There’s so much great stuff. There’s been a lot of contributors to the site. In fact, I encourage every chiropractor or chiropractic supporter to go to that FaceBook…

Dr. L: Absolutely.

Dr. D: …and New Beginnings chiropractic fansite, specifically historical. We try to keep everything else out of it other than mostly pictures and videos that we’ve done… so, videos of B.J. adjusting all-time stuff and now and then a quote from, you know, B.J.’s time or D.D.’s time. Actually we found pictures that we posted recently of D.D. Palmer, D.D.’s wife, D.D.’s family, B.J. as a baby, and stuff that you hadn’t seen before… B.J.’s office up in the Ryan building where he did the first adjustment… We put that on and people were, you know, amazing response to it and comments. And I’ve got a couple that I’m going to let out after New Beginnings. I got a couple pictures of B.J. that I don’t think anybody’s seen but the problem is… Here is the only downside about FaceBook, you put something out and unless somebody goes in searching for it when you put it out initially those people see it. So, there is thousands of chiropractors that once it goes down, it’s a day or two old, it’s gone.

Dr. L: Absolutely. Yeah, that’s true.

Dr. D: But I got a few surprises.

Dr. L: So you mentioned quotes and epigrams. B.J. Palmer was known for his epigrams. Do you remember epigrams on the walls of Palmer School when you were there?

Dr. D: There were very few. Most of them had been removed by Dave Palmer. And that’s an interesting story in itself. He got a bad rap. When he came in…

Dr. L: Dave Palmer being the son of B.J.?

Dr. D: …son of B.J., yeah. So there was actually D.D. Palmer and B.J. and then another D.D. Palmer…

Dr. L: With the names swapped.

Dr. D: Yeah and that was just so they could tell, you know, knew them apart. But anyway, when Dave, B.J.’s son… B.J. passed away. Dave took over the enterprises, Palmer Enterprises and he was a business man. He had gone to business school, to college, and then became a chiropractor. And he went in and he looked at the books and he said, “I can save 50,000 here, 100,00 there. I got to change the image of the school.” And wanted to get all of the old horse and buggy chiropractic and bring it up to a new date, a new time. And unfortunately, got rid of a lot of his father’s old quirks: his collections, his pictures, his quotes, the epigrams all around the school. They were lost in time. There were… a lot of pictures are still out so people can, you know, you can still find them and you know what was around. Surprisingly so, I talked to so many old chiropractors that had been there, had their picture taken with B.J. or by a specific, you know, quote that was on a wall or an epigram that was on a wall that they took to heart. And you get to talk to them and the stories that came out… Oh my goodness! I could go for hours and hours and hours but we don’t have the time.

Dr. L: Do you have a particular epigram that is one of your favorites?

Dr. D: You know what, there’s so many to pick one out… I actually, you know, the eyesight of an eagle, division of a clam… of the vision, yeah that’s it. And…

Dr. L: I don’t know that one…

Dr. D: …and what happens, he says…

Dr. L: He’s got like a thousand of them.

Dr. D: Yeah, you know, you just don’t see what you have in front of you. So…

Dr. L: Ok, I have to ask you this… You have three children?

Dr. D: Yes.

Dr. L: I noticed that your oldest his name is Palmer James.

Dr. D: Correct.

Dr. L: Does that have any kind of chiropractic inspiration?

Dr. D: None whatsoever. You got to realize I got out of school and you’re seeing a quarter of the energy I used to have. So I got out and I was going to set the world on fire. I was going to change it over. I was going to see as many people a day as I could, high volume practice. And I had that for many many many years. When I married my sweetheart, Babs my wife, our first child was a boy and we were going to try to pick out a name and I said, “Well, I’d like to name him…” She goes, “You’re not going to name him James after yourself. I don’t want a Junior. I don’t want a Lil’ Jim around the house.” I said, “Can I name him Palmer after the Palmer family?” And she thought about it and I think a little disgruntled but she agreed. And we named him Palmer and I got the James, but the other part of the James was James Sigafoose who was a mentor of mine. So, we killed two birds with one stone. We named him Palmer and James for me and Sig. And that’s how he got his name, Palmer James Dubel.

Dr. L: Fantastic.

Dr. D: Yup.

Dr. L: Here we are in 2010 and our profession has come a long way. Why is it so important, especially this time in our profession, that we revisit and reconnect with the foundational history of our profession?

Dr. D: Well, you know what? Without history, without tradition, without heritage you have nothing. I mean everybody’s got pictures of their parents, their grandparents, their great-grandparents. If you are lucky enough to have that stuff it gives you a feeling of security. It gives you a feeling of satisfaction, of understanding where you came from. We need to know where we came from. Talk about humble beginnings… D.D. worked his butt off. B.J. had everything against him, was not a college educated man but he had this strong desire to listen to his innate, to listen to that inner voice telling him what to do. And if we could just get more chiropractors to do that because I listen everyday. If Innate is talking to me like when I, you know, contacted you. That was an innate thought-flash that said, “This guy Tom has got some great stuff. Wouldn’t that be great to bring to New Beginnings?” I didn’t… would Jim Dubel get credit for that? No. That was an innate thought-flash. You jumped right in. There wasn’t even a second… “That’s a wonderful idea. I’ll come to New Beginnings. We’ll do these podcasts.” So, getting back to history, B.J. was big into listening to that inner voice, that wee little voice that would talk to him, give him those inspirations. I think all chiropractors need to do that. They need to come back to their roots, come back home. And once you do, and like coming back to New Beginnings, once you come back and share the stuff that we adhere to: the philosophy, the understanding, the lifestyle, the family values, then and only then can you become successful. And why wouldn’t you want to be around successful chiropractors? I mean I can’t see… I can’t see myself going out and playing golf with, you know, ten lawyers. I’d rather be with ten chiropractors. I don’t even care about the golf I just want to talk chiropractic. I want to pick their brains. I want to know what’s going on. I want to know what inspires them, what gets them going? Why does one chiropractor see ten people a day and another chiropractor sees a hundred a day? What’s the difference? The difference is that desire inside, that spirit, that understanding of philosophy.

Dr. L: How do you respond to critics who would say, “Boy you are really wrapped up in those Green Books that were, you know, published decades, some a hundred years ago. You guys aren’t moving forward here. You are stuck in a time warp”?

Dr. D: What would you say to a Christian that you said, “You’re reading the bible that was written thousands of years ago?” Ok. I don’t want to go any further and make any other analogies but…

Dr. L: Touché!

Dr. D: Ok?

Dr. L: Ok. Ok, I’m a chiropractor and I’ve listened to this interview. I’ve watched some of the clips on You tube. I’m intrigued and I want to learn more about this New Beginnings thing that we’ve been talking about. How might I go about doing that?

Dr. D: Well, we’ve got a website. They can jump on there. NBChiro.com Come to New Beginnings. It’s on there, tells you 3 times a year. Would love to invite any chiropractor. I don’t care how you practice, what you think. Come hear what we have to say and see if it doesn’t inspire you to do better. I learned from some of the greats. All the guys down at D.E., you know Jim Sigafoose, Sid Williams, Chuck Ribley, Fred Barge, all the guys… when you have a mentor, when you have somebody that’s the senior member… It’s almost like when you are going out for the team in high school and you are a freshman and the senior takes you under his wing. And he says, “Come on. This is the way you do it. This is the way we act. This is the way we play the game.” And you learn. And in a fraternity of chiropractic, if you find some of the older guys that have made the mistakes, the guys that are there to help you, you got to learn and listen to them and learn from them.

Dr. L: I have a fun question I want to ask you. We are getting towards the end here. You have a moniker on FaceBook, “Outlaw Jim”. There’s got to be a story behind that.

Dr. D: I don’t share it… nah, it’s ok! Here’s the true answer. They had a big thing with drugs coming into chiropractic and people wanted to do nonprescription. You know, giving aspirin to a patient. And a couple states actually did a legislature to try and get this. And I stood up and said this is a bunch of nonsense. Somebody was talking to me a said, “What do you mean?” I said, “Keep chiropractic pure. Do one thing. You can’t serve two masters.” I said, “If you are going to be a good chiropractor, be a chiropractor. If you want to do drugs, be a medical doctor. You know, go be an osteopath. Do something else but stay out of chiropractic.” And the guy turned to me and said, “Well, you’re like an outlaw.” I said, “Yeah, I guess I’ll be an outlaw. If I have to stand up for chiropractic pure and simple. That I use my hands to remove a subluxation so that I can get somebody well. That they can rise up and heal then I’ll be an outlaw.” And he said, “Well, you are an outlaw Jim.” I said, “Yeah. I’m an outlaw!” And to this day it stuck and my buddies were kidding with me and they said, “Well, it’s Outlaw Jim!” And that’s where my name came from on FaceBook. I’m Outlaw Jim because I’m going to stand for the principles, right or wrong and I know I’m right. I will stay here. If they put me in jail because of those principles, well then truly I will be an outlaw and then I will spend my time there knowing I did the right thing.

Dr. L: I’m going to let you hit this one out of the park then we’ll wrap it up. Why does this profession need New Beginnings?

Dr. D: Well, you know what? You are not going to be getting it anywhere else. I mentioned playing golf with a bunch of lawyers. What are you going to get? You are going to play golf with lawyers. When you come to New Beginnings you are going to be with people that think the same way you do, that live the same way you do. Mentors and people, guys that have made the mistakes and they are out there in the trenches battling it. I want to go… you know, they ask you if you want to… if you were in a trench in war, who would you be with? I’d pick these board members I got. I’d pick the speakers I got. I’d pick the guys that are in there that have done it, that live it, that would lay down their life for chiropractic. And these guys would do it. And I would do it. If it came down to it and they said to me for my kids to be adjusted I would have to lay my life down I would do it. Because that chiropractic means that much to me.

Dr. L: You’re making me misty. Well, Outlaw Jim, let me just say it is truly an honor to not only to have the opportunity via your invitation to tote my podcasting equipment across the United States to this amazing event but to have an opportunity to get to know you through this interview and just hanging out. I’m looking forward to the conversations that we will have behind these microphones as well as some of the ones that will be off the microphones. But, and also the all star chiropractic line up that we are going to get to run behind these microphones. Thank you so much.

Dr. D: Thank you for being here. You are going to get an awful lot of guys in here so you better be ready. All right?

Dr. L: Game on baby!

Dr. D: All right, Tom. Thank you…. Let’s not wake him up.


[transitional sound effect]

Dr. James Dubel… a remarkable man and a remarkable visionary for chiropractic.

Dr. Dubel's interview shocked Logan into a deep slumber!

If you caught that last little bit there… Dr. Jim was referring to our Logan.  Logan was dead asleep… we’ve got some photos of it in the transcript of the Show Notes on SpinalColumnRadio.com .. just to have a little fun… But rest assured it had nothing to do with Dr. Jim’s awesome interview.  Logan… with all of the excitement and all of the traveling… was just that tired.

Thank you Jim for having us out… we had a great time.

Dr. Dubel: Listen, we appreciate you coming and you guys were professional. I can’t imagine anybody else doing this. When you did that interview on stage, the live on stage one, our crowd went crazy. They loved it! And that was an impromptu thing that we just discussed when you got here. You interviewed Dr. Bill Henry and up on stage in front of 500 crazy chiropractors. It doesn’t get any better then that! You and Logan were fabulous! You guys did such a good job!

Logan was like a Die Hard Battery! He was so excited to make the trip that when we finally reached New Beginnings he was running on fumes.

Dr. Lamar: Thank you very much… We appreciate it…

So what’s next?  Well Logan and I have come home with so much content that we feel a responsibility — an obligation — to get this content out the chiropractic masses.  So we’re tweaking our typical release schedule from twice per month to once a week.  So for the next 21 plus weeks, or so… plan on getting a weekly dose of Spinal Column Radio…. now I realize that we have listeners that are not chiropractors, and that some of these interviews may not appeal to that audience… so, rest assured, we will be throwing some other content with broader appeal into the mix… I’ve got a few things up my sleeve.

Before we sign off…. Dr. Jim had this to say:

Dr. Dubel: That’s just the beginning. We’ve got wok to do. We can’t sit back on our laurels. We are going to have some fun with this thing, Tom. And you too Logan! We’re going to get this thing… I want to get you guys back here to the east coast and we are going to do this again because chiropractic needs it. This isn’t about you and me. This is about our profession and what you are going to offer the profession is… There is no price. It’s priceless. You know, it’s like that commercial. You know, coming to New Jersey… plane ride. Staying in a hotel… the cost of the hotel. But speaking and doing a podcast at New Beginnings… priceless.

[transitional sound effect]

Dr. Lamar: You know, I couldn’t have said it better myself.


[outro theme music]

New Beginnings Chiropractic Weekends… truly a powerful and memorable experience.  Check them out at NewBeginningsChiro.com for more information. Also we have links in our Show Notes to their FaceBook Pages…. including their History Fan Page… it’s definitely worth a look.

Spinal Column Radio would like to remind you that true health comes from the inside out — not outside in.  As such, the content of this podcast, along with the show notes and related links, is not intended to cure, diagnose, treat, or prevent any disease.  But, instead, is meant to inform and inspire you in asking better questions regarding your health.  Since the circumstances surrounding your particular situation are unique, you are encouraged to consult with a Doctor of Chiropractic — or other health care practitioner of your choosing.

Next time on Spinal Column Radio, an interview from our ON LOCATION Studio on the shores of Jersey… and I’m not going to tell you who it’s with… you’ll have to find out next week. So, until then, for my son Logan, tweaking the knobs on the mixer board, this is Dr. Thomas Lamar, your podcast chiropractor.


Spinal Column Radio is a production of Spinal Column Communications in conjunction with AnchorChiropractic.net.  Copyright 2010.


Download a PDF version of these Show Notes


3 Comments so far
Leave a comment

The Facebook Comments are coming in:

Liam Schubel: This is the most entertaining and informative chiropractic radio program I have ever heard…..Listen to Dr. Lamar interview Dr. Jim “Outlaw” Dubel from New Jersey. Look out Prairie Home Companion…Dr. Lamar is breathing down Garrison Keillor’s spine! Enjoy!

Matthew Alvord: Love Outlaw Jim!

Comment by drlamar

Thomas, WOW! What a great interview with Dr. Jim Dubel, the Founder of New Beginnings. Your interviewing skills certainly guided Dr. Jim to reveal aspects of Chiropractic, Chiropractic Philosophy, New Beginnings, and his own unique personality. He is definitely the driving force behind the energy and vision of New Beginnings!

Comment by Bill Henry

Thank you Bill for the wonderful compliment! After interviewing the Outlaw, hearing him speak at New Beginnings, and then through my conversations and interactions with him off mic…. it’s not hard to conclude that he’s the real deal. He loves ChiropracTIC and is a Visionary Leader. It’s a privilege to know him.

Comment by drlamar

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